h1

Hey Hatas! It’s Time to Walk the Talk

September 27, 2008

It’s time for the rubber to meet the road, and I’m not talking about fucking in the streets.  I have run into too many christians spouting off homophobic comments, writing anti-gay blog entries, that, when confronted, employ less than honorable journalistic skills and hide behind the common refrain “God said it in the Bible, I didn’t.  If you don’t like it, take it up with God.” 

So, homophobes, bigots, hypocrites, family values supporters, christians, and evangelicals/fundamentalists, take note:  it’s time to put up or shut up.  You need to find some ethical standards if you’re going to participate in the blogging world, and you need to be consistent about your beliefs.  In addition, you need to support your beliefs with scripture as well as demonstrate that you know some reliable facts before you form an opinion and put it out there for all the world to see.

Let’s take another look at the American Family Association’s boycott of McDonald’s.  I recently hit the tag surfer button here on my wordpress dashboard and ran across a young man who enjoys blogging about conservative issues.  Jermy Buffo seems to think that McDonald’s was acting improperly when it did two things:  requested a group discount for sending at least 15 employees to a training session known as the “Out and Equal 2008 Workplace Summit”  and donated $20,000 to the National Gay and Lesbian Chamber of Commerce.  Bluffer then made some outrageous replies to comments at his blog, and employed some questionable practices while doing so. 

I confronted Mr. Fluffer with some hard evidence about his claims.  Claim #1 was that McDonald’s had suffered a huge financial blow because of the AFA’s boycott.  I provided a link to Yahoo’s stock reports which showed McDonald’s stock values had steadily increased since start of the boycott. I think most people would agree that this would indicate that the boycott is having no effect whatsoever.  Claim #2 was that McDonald’s was pushing the gay agenda above and beyond anything else.  I did the math for this guy, and showed him how McDonald’s gave a total of $30,462.50 for joining the NGLCC and attending the Equal and Out Conference.  Then I quoted from McDonald’s own website that shows they have donated $460 million in grant money over and above their corporate support of Ronald McDonald House Charities. 

The really disturbing stuff comes in how Boffo handles the comments.  One of my replies was totally deleted, which caused me to start making screen captures of my posts that were awaiting moderation.  At one point, Jerkmy accuses me of calling his writing “crap.”   I searched my replies and finally discovered that I had quoted another comment by a guy named Andrew.  Andrew had called the writing crap.  Now, remember, Jeremy claims he doesn’t delete any of the comments, however, when I posted the correction that Andrew had made the comment, not me, that particular post never made it to the blog. 

It’s just a bit of creative editing that allowed Mr. Bluffo, the right-wing, conservative, anti-gay blogger to accuse me of lying without ever having to admit to his own error.  So what have we learned from the religious right?  Make accusations, and never admit that you were wrong. 

Now let’s take a look at a woman who represents God, although I’m not sure if this is a self-proclaimed title or an actual endorsement from the Almighty.  I’m not sure who represents the licensing in this case.  Here’s a link to Janelinda, but let me warn you, the woman has no taste.  The font size, colors, and site theme more than clash, it hurts the eyes.  Janelinda caught my eye while tag surfing a few days ago. 

Here’s the exchange that got things rolling:

janelinda said: The truth is that Paul’s writings are clear that homosexuality is a sin rewarded by death. If the state won’t do it, the church will.

keltic said:  wow, it sounds like you’d like to kill all the gay people. as a matter of fact, it sounds like you’re threatening to do just that. will you pick up the first stone?

Now, I don’t put this out there to brag, but I know my way around the Bible.  I know which books are Old Testament and which are New Testament, I know the major themes, and I even hold a minor in religious studies.  I know that the verse to which this woman refers to does not have a death penalty attached to it.  I also know that Jesus silenced a group of hypocrites by saying “let he who is without sin cast the first stone” as a way of teaching that humans can not make that kind of judgment against each other.   Yet, here is a woman who is perfectly willing to make that kind of statement, and proclaim it loudly as her duty to God. 

Again, the deceit and unethical tactics commence.  Janelinda began using my comments as material for her blog entries, yet she would let my comments sit “awaiting moderation” for days on end. 

Another favorite tactic of the screeching fundamentalists:  when confronted, fling a little mud.  Case in point:  in reply to my question about why christians are concerned so much with homosexuality and less about divorce, in light of the fact that Jesus said nothing about the former and plenty about the latter, I got a response about pedophilia. 

Yes, Jesus was silent on the subject of homosexuality even as he was silent about molesting children.

I gave her the statistics that prove children are in more danger from straight people, but she chooses not to be confused by facts. 

Once again, I had to request that the owner of the blog post all of my comments, not just those they wanted their readers to see.  One comment has been lost completely, after which I began performing screen captures.  This particular blogger decided that my comments could go unpublished, but that she would use them as a starting point for ever more shrill homophobic posts.  A request to allow my posts to be made public was met with a disclaimer at the beginning of another blog entry about how nasty “teh gays” are. 

Now I am engaged in what can best be described as talking at each other, I certainly wouldn’t call it a dialog.  Ms. Jadedliah seems to think I don’t have an understanding of the Bible.  Notice how she ignores my questions about other laws or rules that are clearly stated in scripture.  She so cleverly turns that around to say that she doesn’t need to explain the law to me.  Of course she doesn’t!  I already understand the law, but I also understand that no one can ever fulfill the law.  I know that every time a fundie trots out a scripture with the intent to beat a homosexual into submission, they are ignoring all the words around it that condemn them 20 times more than God’s word condemns gays and lesbians.  Miss Jane claims to be a minister, called to preach God’s unchanging word.  So when asked about a few scriptures that imply women should never take on that role, she pulls a few more out of context to support her case. 

You will not move from what God has said in the Bible? that is excellent news!
1 Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

as well as 1 Timothy 2:12-14 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

So you are condemned by your own words. “I was called to ministry. I didn’t decide this myself. I was called when a child to preach the gospel.”

To whom do you preach? Only other women? You have been instructed by God’s Holy Word to keep silent. why is it that you, by your own admission, disobey God’s commandments?

I admit to playing devil’s advocate in this exchange.  I believe women have a rightful place in ministry.  I’m just baffled by a woman who can ignore clear scriptures about her own position within the church, then turn around and issue condemning decrees about gays and lesbians with those same scriptures.

So here is my request, Mr. Fluffer, Ms. Janelicka, and all you other hate-filled (love the sinner, hate the sin) types of christians/ fundies/ evangelicals/  right-wingnuts/ conservatives/ homophobes.  Do us all a favor and start living your lives in a more consistent fashion.  When you write an offensively homophobic blog entry, have the balls to go exactly where you intend it to go. 

For instance, if you want to use Leviticus as your basis for hating on the gays, you’ve got to be willing to kill us.  The scripture is clear.  It doesn’t say that the government has that responsibility, it doesn’t assign that duty to some church committee, it is entirely up to God’s people to stand up and do the right thing:  Kill those Faggots! 

If you’re going to skip lunch at McDonald’s because they gave a few nickels to a gay & lesbian organization, you’ve got to hold fast to that commitment.  Now, go out and find all the other businesses that support homosexuals and boycott them as well.  Need some help?  Here’s a list:  Burger King, Pepsico, Frito Lay, Wells Fargo, Kodak, Levi’s, Pacific Gas & Electric Co (Californian’s united for Hate, turn off those lights!), Motorola, American Express, Shop n Save, Cub Foods, Blue Cross of California, Comcast, Capitol One, Coors Light, AT&T, Marriott, Ramada, Hilton, Southwest Airlines, Johnson & Johnson, UPS.  Have we hit you where you live yet?  You, homophobes calling for boycotts and screaming that granting civil rights to gay and lesbian people is giving them special rights, need to walk the talk!  Stop giving your hard-earned straight dollars to all these companies that are pushing the gay agenda!  Do it now!  I mean it. 

Stop listening to music created by gay people.  That means you’ll have to give up all your Judas Priest albums (Rob Halford is gay), no more Clay Aiken, Johnny Mathis, or Barry Manilow.  No Stephen Sondheim, Elton John, or K D Lang.  How’d you like Ray Boltz’s music back in the day?  Surprise, he just came out too.  Is the music minister at your church a male?  He may be deeply closeted, but he’s most likely gay.  Don’t sing along until you can have him fired and replaced by your 85 year old aunt Stella.  Into classical?  Change the station when Aaron Copland hits the airwaves, or Samuel Barber, or even Tchaikovsky.  Don’t even think of going to the theater for a Broadway show;  you’ll find more gays than you can shake a stick at, whether you’re into shaking sticks or not! 

Need some more help?  Go buy a gay magazine like Out, or Advocate, or Instinct.  Don’t worry about reading any of the articles, just make a list of the companies who advertise in the magazines.  Then, keep that list handy whenever you need to make a purchasing decision.  You’ll need to avoid Tylenol products, Avis car rentals, premium movie channels, all the major clothing designers, and most travel destinations. 

But why stop there?  Let’s bring the hate a little closer to home.  Who does your hair?  Have you been going to that gay man for your latest hairstyle?  Stop it!  What’s your favorite restaurant?  Make sure that chef with the short hair isn’t a butch lesbian.  Got a car that needs maintenance?  Be sure to ask the mechanic if he’s ever had a cock in his mouth.  And for God’s sake, don’t go to the garage that has a woman working on cars.  Does the coffee shop employ androgynous baristas?  Go get your morning java at the convenience store. 

You think that “millions and millions” of Americans want to recognize marriage as being one man and one woman?  That’s great, a little hyperbolic, but great.  If it’s as you say it is, then there should be no problems finding businesses, large and small, that will assist you in your boycott of all things gay.  Think globally, act locally.  Hate universally.

I have one small favor to ask.  Could you email me and let me know what time you intend to be here to stone me?  I’d hate to be late for my own funeral.

47 comments

  1. You are a tasteless, sinning homosexual. Go ahead with your gay agenda, and see where it gets you: HELL. This blog contains so many outrageous lies that you should feel ashamed of yourself. This post is low, ever for YOU. Keep on spreading your lies and smear, but mainstream America can see through your BS.

    By the way, thank you for creating more links to my blog, driving traffic and my page rank up!

    Hi jeremy!

    Thanks for visiting. Thank you for proving my point as well. I can just feel the christian love oozing from your comments.

    As far as driving your page rank up, well I’m always happy to help a fellow blogger, and especially pleased that you’re able to get something up! ;-)


  2. Great post Steve!

    Hell is other people- Sartre

    hey Daniel, thanks. and by the way, I found an extra “r” lying about, you can use it here.


  3. Oops! Apologies to the great philosopher- Jean-Paul Sartre

    What a difference an ‘r’ makes.

    Oh Steve. Love your lies. Keep it up!


  4. Steve,

    You are an ignoramus. I have looked at the blogs you are hating on, and you clearly are an idiot. I advise you to stop lying, you sick bastard. By the way, your blog sucks.

    Hi Jennifer,

    thanks for your comments. yes, I practice what I preach; your comment didn’t even have to wait for moderating.
    ignoramus: I’ve been tested for that on a regular basis. it’s all cleared up now.
    “clearly an idiot” : that’s rather strong when all you know of me is what you’ve been able to read here and in comments from other blogs. Perhaps we could meet sometime and get to know each other better before we make such a strong statement.
    lying: hmmm, I’m not sure where I’ve purposely stated false information.
    sick bastard: I’m feeling fine today thanks. I was born in the 4th year of my parents’ marriage.
    your blog sucks: thanks for the input. I’m really resisting the temptation to make a reference to oral sex.

    Oh, and while you haven’t left any links for us to find out more about you, I’ll just go ahead and thank you for reinforcing my points about certain kinds of christians.


  5. Indeed, we Christians can be the absolute worst in living out Jesus’ command to love our neighbors. I must say though that way back in the day when AIDS was still considered a gay disease, I was active in The Village Church (NYC) and we began to shop, cook, serve and dine with the residents of NYC’s first residence for people living with AIDS. It has been a wonderful experience and a group from that church along with its founding church, Redeemer Presbyterian still have Sunday dinner with the residents and are very actively involved in their lives. We do not have to agree on every theological point to enjoy each other’s company:) We also gladly participated in AIDSWalk NYC, St. Luke’s neighborhood Outreach and Harmony House (AIDS residence) when approached by the Gay community who work side-by-side with us conservative Christians (well, perhaps not so conservative).


  6. Your rebuttal to Jennifer’s comment makes it clearer than ever that you really ARE a sick person. Referring to oral, even straight oral sex, is a very unprofessional and perverted thing to do. At least you aren’t a huge asshole. Go ahead, make another gay joke about that one.

    Also, assuming that everyone who doesn’t agree with your immoral lifestyle is a Christian is a very stupid thing to do. I guess you are incapable of realizing that society, not only religion, looks at your lifestyle as immoral.

    Jeremy,

    Should I go ahead and assume then that Jennifer is your girlfriend? Or is she just a friend you sent over here to bust on me? and since both of your IP addresses come from the same server in the same town, perhaps you could speak to her about using such strong language and references to oral sex, straight or gay, because afterall, she is the one who introduced it into the comments section.


  7. No, she is not my girlfriend. My server hosts many people in my town, so I would advise you to stop jumping to conclusions. I have sent out an email to all of my fellow Asheville conservatives so I am sure you will see many comments.

    My comments still stand unanswered.

    Jeremy, I have responded to every comment you’ve made here tonight. Just how much attention do you need from this gay boy?

    You mean both of those Asheville conservatives will be visiting my blog? That’s great.

    As for other things you have said: I had a very strict religious upbringing. I know what the rules are for proper christian conduct. You’ve used some offensive language in your comments. Would you like me to respond to that? Ok, here’s my response: Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?


  8. What a devil worshiping homosexual you are! How in the world can you justify your lifestyle. This blog is full of shit.

    Thanks John,

    I note that you are one of my recent fans. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.


  9. Great post, Steve. I’ve also been finding more and more blog posts by christians who don’t practice what they preach, and don’t preach the Bible. In an effort to help them with their boycotts, I went through the most recent copy of OUT magazine and noted the advertisers. (Any excuse to look at the interview with NPH, right?) Here’s the list: Every major upscale clothing manufacturer, Levi’s (sorry, Buffy!), Clinique, The CW network, Converse shoes (no more Chucks!), Banana Republic, Gillette (and by extension any Procter & Gamble product, including Old Spice, Charmin toilet paper, Downy fabric softener, Tide detergent, Iams pet food, Pringles potato chips, Glad trash bags, and Crest toothpaste), Cartier, Skyy Vodka, Travelocity.com, Seiko, Perry Ellis, Macy’s, American Express, 2(x)ist (like you’d use them anyway), Ketel One Vodka, Simmons jewelry, Nivea, Fiji bottled water, KY (sorry, Jennifer!), KitchenAid, GlaxoSmithKline presciption medications, Bristol-Meyers Squibb prescription medications, Delta airlines, amazon.com, Bank of America, American Spirit tobacco, Svedka vodka, Expedia, Hyatt Hotels and Resorts, emusic.com, Avis, Bayer, Bridgestone tires, Luxor, fabugo.com, Borders books, and Basil Hayden’s Bourbon. Wow, it really sucks to be a homphobe, doesn’t it?

    Matt, add google to that list as well


  10. My goodness. Do you good Christians actually take Communion with those mouths?


  11. Great post! I’ve come across some of your others with Tag Surfer before. You’ve expressed what I’ve thought so many times. I just can’t go to those people’s blogs though; it makes me feel like going to the beach and discovering that an oil slick is covering the water. Or when you’re taking your dog for a walk, then by mistake, you step in a big one left behind by some big Great Dane.
    These kind of people are so all-encumbered by their own hatred and delusions, that logic and the real world never come into play, so all the defense they can come up with is just spewing out more vitriol.
    Appreciate your post.


  12. What a complete pinhead you are. “Christian upbringing” my ass. You paint yourself a little world of gayness and believe that it’s okay. You are an immoral, sick person. I am ashamed that My America allows this devilish conduct.

    You should be ashame of yourself!


  13. hey readers, I want to point something out here. You might have noticed that a few readers are upset with me. That’s a risk a blogger takes, especially when writing on controversial topics. I’ve been called names, and had insults hurled at me. Not one of my detractors has addressed any of the content. They have been happy to simply attack me personally. This is the Family Values crowd, the ones who want us to return to a “Christian America”.

    So I’ve got to ask, What are the values that allow them to ignore my blog entry and simply call me names and insult me? What’s “Christian” in these comments? Where’s this moral high road that conservatives are always talking about?


  14. Thanks for twisting everything I posted. Knock yourself out.
    When I said the church will kill, I meant the sin ITSELF kills the sinner.
    Sinners self destruct. Anyone who sins dies. None of us is exempt. God said the soul that sins, it shall die. Look it up. Sin is the transgression of the law.
    Why are you assaulting me for what God said? Do you want Christians to deny what is clearly commanded by God? And because we don’t agree with you, we are homophobes and God knows what else you call us.
    If you know the Law, and think I don’t, then post what it is about (no copy and paste) and how Jesus fulfilled it.
    Christians do not hate homosexuals, they simply repeat what God says about them. But since you can’t attack God, you attack the messengers.
    I can see you have spent some time reading comments and using them to your own advantage.

    Hi jane,

    “Why do you see the speck in your brother’s eye but fail to notice the beam in your own eye?

    So if I’m using these comments to my own advantage, how is this different from your use of my own comments? Are you giving your christian approval of what has been said by many of the commentors here?
    No one, myself included, can say “Thus says the Lord” without bringing some sort of bias to God’s word. What you see so clearly as God condemning me is just as clear to me and others as your own pride in presuming to speak for God.
    And when you claim the Leviticus verse as a denouncement of gay people, it IS your duty to kill them. There’s no way around it. That’s why people like you are a threat. Your congregation hears that homosexuals should be put to death, and a few might just decide to help you out with that.


  15. How conveniently you didn’t mention what the great apostle Paul said in Romans 1 about homosexuality. Paul was not a blogger. He was a religious genius, a former member of the Sanhedrin (Supreme court) a brilliant theologian from the tribe of Benjamin who had a great encounter with God himself. He whose head was chopped off in Rome for preaching the gospel said that homosexuals are reprobates whose minds cannot discern right from wrong because God gave them UP “to do those things..”
    So tell me why do you attack the messenger bloggers and not Paul? Is it because you can’t move your mouse an click into his blog?
    Bias to God’s word? I don’t think so. It is easy to understand what God said that men are not to lie with men. All that is required to understand the Bible is the basic ability of knowing how to read.
    A retard could understand that passage. A five year old could understand what Paul is saying.
    It is not my duty to kill homosexuals, their own life will destroy them because the soul that sins shall die. How is that hard to understand?
    There is the civil law, the ceremonial, the moral, Israel lived at that time under a theocracy and on and on.
    No one is threatening homosexuals. We are trying to save them from coming judgment. Do you think God is a joke? God doesn’t compromise with sin. He condemns homosexuality. He said not to do it.
    A verse in Leviticus doesn’t condemn homosexuals. God does!
    I see now how you see things when you said it is our duty to kill homosexuals.
    No, the wages of sin is death. All sinners self destruct.
    I have nothing to do with homosexuals dying.
    I love you with the love of God and my heart’s prayer is for you to go to heaven someday.

    that is quite a list of sins that Paul offers in Chapter 1: wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice, full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness, gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, rebellious toward parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. They know God’s decree, that those who do such things DESERVE TO DIE. and then I read chapter 2 of Romans, in which Paul, being the rhetorical genius that he was, turns to his audience of young jewish christians, who have just agreed that those Romans are nasty people, and Paul says to them “Therefore you have no excuse, O human being, whoever you are, when you judge another.” No matter how terrible you think I am (you’ve used some strong names and adjectives for me here- “retard” in this particular comment) Paul says that you are just as bad.

    once again, I have to say that if this is the love of Christ, I’m gonna have to pass.


  16. You said..”And when you claim the Leviticus verse as a denouncement of gay people, it IS your duty to kill them. There’s no way around it. That’s why people like you are a threat. Your congregation hears that homosexuals should be put to death, and a few might just decide to help you out with that.”

    So now I will commit murder? Lol. A commandment given by God to stop you from killing me and to stop me from killing you is now not to be obeyed so I can obey another commandment which says to stone homosexuals to death?
    Do you know the difference between the “Thou shall do no murder” commandment and stoning people to death for disobeying the commandments?
    You need to learn the law, my friend and also about grace which came through OUR Savior Jesus Christ.

    I take you back to your original statement that caught my attention:
    janelinda said: The truth is that Paul’s writings are clear that homosexuality is a sin rewarded by death. IF THE STATE WON’T DO IT, THE CHURCH WILL.

    Who is the church? You have clearly stated that you, as a member of the church, are perfectly willing to usher homosexuals into death.

    As for your instructions to me to “learn the law” I know the law, I live by grace.


  17. Good for you, Steve. Call ‘em out, and don’t they just blow a gasket?

    i make no claims as to my own holiness. i’m no gnostic claiming to know the mind of God or that my understanding of scripture is the ‘right’ one. i’m just deeply grateful for God’s grace and am seeking to comprehend & follow the Way of Christ. Falling short seems to be what i do best, and still He forgives me.

    Try as i might, i see very little of either God’s grace or Christ’s Way in what your critics have posted in their comments here. When i read their words, it’s certainly not a witness of Christ’s love, nor do i see their attacks as following in any manner His commandments given in Mark 12.25-34 (as well as in the other synoptic gospels.) No, reading such hateful comments just sadly brings to my mind His words in Matthew 23.27.

    Screed like theirs, especially when it’s accompanied with the claim that in some twisted way their antagonism is rooted in love, fills me more with sorrow than anger. i just can’t get away from the thought that somehow they’ve horribly twisted the meaning of Christ’s mission.

    Go with God, my friend. Pray for the God’s children, pray for the church.


  18. So much anger, so little progress.

    First, some facts: “homosexuality” was a term invented in 1890, and it was not used in any Bible translation until 1947. So God did not say anything specifically about “homosexuality” in the original text of the Bible. What was addressed in Leviticus was the crime of inhospitality, an act that could bring about the death of a stranger in their nomadic society. That was the crime of Sodom, too, by the way, which was condemned by God long before the angels appeared to Lot. Paul—who was a Pharisee, not a Sanhedrin—created the word that we have translated as “homosexual” in Romans. He was addressing idolatrous behavior used in pagan temples. The word he coined is found only 76 times in historical documents, all of which were quoting Paul. He was attempting to name an act separate from a loving relationship between two people of the same sex. Such relationships were common in the culture of his time. We need to discern what the Bible says as opposed to what the Bible reads; because without context and with the weaknesses inherent in the English language, what the Bible reads and what it says are two different things. Ultimately, one must ask: what do I know of the nature of God? What can I learn about God’s nature from what I read?

    Another famous homosexual to add to your list is the highly regarded author and respected priest, Henri Nouwen. His writings are used for study by clergy and priests in Protestant and Catholic seminaries. He writes of God’s grace and the peace to be found in forgiveness. In accepting God’s infinite grace, we respond by offering that grace to all. To ALL, unconditionally, as God does for us.

    Keltic, your words are pearls before swine. Talk to those who will hear. Turn to those who will discuss, reason and ask questions. Those are the ones who will rebuild the church in God’s image.


  19. Absurdity at its worst is your so called understanding of Holy Writ.
    I don’t care if you are a homosexual.
    That is your business. But there are billions of people (those of us who keep the human race going) who will never accept it.
    This is fact!
    God will never accept it.
    Wrest the Scriptures all you want. Knock yourself out. It is to your own destruction.


  20. Remember that song most of us probably learned in Vacation Bible School?
    “And they’ll know we are Christians by our…?” Now, what was it they would know us by? Our vitriol? Self-proclaimed superiority? Idolatry of one particular brand of pseudo-exegesis? Nah. None of those sound quite right. Let’s see…oh yeah! LOVE!

    Maybe i should try another old hymn: “Blessed self-assurance! Jesus is mine (and not yours!) Oh how I can use Him to condemn others than me!” Whoops. That’s not right either.

    I guess your new, angry visitors have confused me, Steve.


  21. Jane, I’m a straight Christian Sunday School director, seminarian, and mother of two. God accepts me just as I am, you, and everyone else on this planet, just as He created us to be. God’s grace is astonishing, and I know that His love is for all, no matter what we do. That’s you, too.


  22. Jane, please explain your first line. What has keltic gotten wrong in his “so called understanding of Holy Writ”? (Also, he’s one of the people who “keep the human race going”, what with his three kids and four steps, so obviously you don’t speak for all of them.)

    Are you partaking in the boycott? Taken notes on which companies not to buy from ever again?

    And why do people get all King James-y when they’re condemning other people? “Wrest”? “Holy Writ”? Really?


  23. Wait a minute! Jane, are you the same person as Jane Linda? Jane Linda used “Wrest” and “Holy Writ” in her latest blog post. Certainly it’s not a coincidence, is it?

    So why are you posting as two different people? Is it to make it look like there’s more opposition than there is?

    matt,
    the IP address for Jane and Janelinda are exactly the same, although the email addies and websites are listed as being different.


  24. I can only think that those with so little love and compassion for others- as has been evidenced in the comments here by those who are opposed to loving relationships between gay people- ultimately, have none for themselves.

    For we give what we have. And have what we give. Isn’t that the real law?


  25. Puts me in mind of the scene from ‘Saved!’ where the good Christian-school girl throws a Bible at the head of the protagonist and snarls, “I am FULL of the Love of Christ!”

    Uhhuh.


  26. I was minding my own business blogging against Obama and mentioned his approval of homosexual “marriages” which I am against and the next thing I knew, I was attacked by homosexuals insisting that God, our holy God says that men sodomizing men is okay with Him. God doesn’t approve of that.
    I don’t care if someone wants to be a homosexual, that is their business.
    What I hate is the wresting of the Bible holy message.
    Let the homosexuals believe what they want. God’s truth, his word shall be my shield.
    And yes God did call me to ministry and I will tell the gospel story to the day I die.
    Anyone who professes Christ must depart from iniquity.
    If they refuse, then that is between them and God, not me and them.

    Those bad homosexuals! There you were, fresh off a blog article in which you proclaim that Obama is the ANTI-CHRIST, and feeling full of yourself. You figured that you could call for the murder of homosexuals in the midst of yet another colorful (literally) anti-Obama tirade, and no one would notice. Then this uppity ho-mo-sek-shul keltic questions you on it, and your life has been a wreck since then. Damn those homosexuals! If only we could pass some laws that would deny them their rights, or if we could just gather them up and send them somewhere, or kill them all and say “God said we have to” or make their daily lives a living hell………..


  27. Obama approves of same-gender marriage? Since when? His statements have been clear that while he disapproves of discrimination against lgbt Americans, he believes marriage is between a man & a woman. He has also said that domestic partnerships / civil unions should be available under the law. That’s not quite the same as Jane’s statement about ‘his approval of homosexual marriages’.

    Why is it that these self-proclaimed paragons of ‘virtue’ seem to so frequently (and easily) resort to lies and misrepresentations in their meager arguments? Are they so unable to defend their positions without lying? Given such reliance on dishonesty (or perhaps it’s just ignorance), how can they possibly expect anyone to give them any credence when they say that their interpretation of God’s will for others, or their interpretation of select verses in the Holy Bible, is the only right or true understanding?

    By the way, the word iniquity which Jane uses so easily, derives from the Old French iniquité’, which in turn derives from the Latin iniquitatem, meaning unequalness, injustice, unfairness. So, since Ms. Jane implies that she is among those professing Christ, I wonder when she’s planning to depart from what appears to be her own iniquity?


  28. AMEN!!!

    Thoughtful, intelligent, and well written. Totally suprising for a gay man who is obviously of such low intelligence that he can’t read his Bible the “right” way (said with a very heavy dose of sarcasm).

    I will be watching your blog.


  29. {Those bad homosexuals! There you were, fresh off a blog article in which you proclaim that Obama is the ANTI-CHRIST, and feeling full of yourself. You figured that you could call for the murder of homosexuals in the midst of yet another colorful (literally) anti-Obama tirade, and no one would notice. Then this uppity ho-mo-sek-shul keltic questions you on it, and your life has been a wreck since then. Damn those homosexuals! If only we could pass some laws that would deny them their rights, or if we could just gather them up and send them somewhere, or kill them all and say “God said we have to” or make their daily lives a living hell……}

    I also have rights. You flatter yourself thinking Christians have nothing better to do than condemn homosexuals. No part of my day is spent condemning homosexuals or even thinking of what they do. I don’t know how much clearer I can say this; it is not the homosexual I hate, but what I detest is when homosexuals claim that God approves of their behavior.
    This is where Christians have to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints.
    I didn’t call for the murder of homosexuals. I said the sin itself will kill them; this is what I meant.
    Christians know that sin kills. Whatever sin you commit is the sin that is killing you.
    As for Obama, he will pass like a thief in the night meaning he will not be elected.


  30. Matt A stated; “Jane, please explain your first line. What has keltic gotten wrong in his “so called understanding of Holy Writ”? (Also, he’s one of the people who “keep the human race going”, what with his three kids and four steps, so obviously you don’t speak for all of them.)

    Are you partaking in the boycott? Taken notes on which companies not to buy from ever again?

    And why do people get all King James-y”}}}}}

    Keltic didn’t get his kids with a man. He got his kids by following God’s “Be fruitful and multiply..” instruction, and he had to be with a woman to obey that. What boycott? I’m not part of the Religious Right or the Moral Majority or whoever is boycotting. I follow Jesus personally, it has nothing to do with anyone else.
    The Bible clearly states that men are not to lie with men. How is that hard to understand? The Old and New Testaments both condemn it.


  31. SCOTT said; [[“Why is it that these self-proclaimed paragons of ‘virtue’ seem to so frequently (and easily) resort to lies and misrepresentations in their meager arguments? Are they so unable to defend their positions without lying? Given such reliance on dishonesty (or perhaps it’s just ignorance), how can they possibly expect anyone to give them any credence when they say that their interpretation of God’s will for others, or their interpretation of select verses in the Holy Bible, is the only right or true understanding?”}}

    1.I’m not self-proclaimed. 2. Jesus got a hold of my life when I was about five years old. 3.Calling me a liar isn’t working. 4. I don’t care if anyone gives me credence. 5.God’s commandment that men are not to lie with men is not a select verse, but a clear one. 6. You’re wrong about the original meaning of “iniquity” the Hebrew says it is perverseness, evil, punishment. 7. Quoting a clear commandment from God is not a “meager argument”


  32. Jane,

    You’ve made 3 comments in a row in less than 20 minutes. Yet you claim that you spend no part of your day condemning homosexuals or thinking of what they do. Your behavior betrays your words. I’d say that you might even be obsessed with what we homosexuals do. have you talked to a counselor about this obsession you have?

    Once again, I want to direct you back to your original comments: The truth is that Paul’s writings are clear that homosexuality is a sin rewarded by death. If the state won’t do it, the church will.

    If this is not a death threat to homosexuals, if this is not a call for their mass murder, then please, by all means, explain what you mean by it, without resorting to “reward of sin” because that still doesn’t explain who is meting out the punishments and rewards. If it’s God, then God isn’t doing this in a just manner. Remember Hurrican Katrina? If that’s God’s judgment on homosexuals, then God was WAY off, had He (or She) held off a few more days, thousands of homosexuals could have suffered!

    By saying that “if the state won’t do it, the church will” you have indicated that you think the government should kill the homosexuals, and if they won’t do the job, the church will do it. How can this possibly mean anything else?


  33. Keltic didn’t get his kids with a man. He got his kids by following God’s “Be fruitful and multiply..” instruction, and he had to be with a woman to obey that.

    That has nothing to do with the question. You said “there are billions of people (those of us who keep the human race going) who will never accept it.”

    As one of the people who keeps the human race going, Keltic doesn’t agree with you. Your speaking for him is out of order. (And do you really think that straight couples who don’t produce children are going against God’s orders?)

    Also, and I’m pretty sure this has been pointed out to you before now, no the Bible doesn’t condemn homosexuality.


  34. Interesting string of comments. First, I would like to address the statement that ‘billions’ of people ‘oppose’ homosexuality (how can one oppose a condition anyway??). There are about 6 billion people on the earth, and if 10% of them are GLBT and a good portion are not condeming of GLBT, how could there possibly be billions of people who oppose GLBT? The math here doesn’t add up.

    I am horrified by the utter lack of love and compassion demonstrated by all you supposed “Christians” and at least one who admits to not being a Christian. There is nothing “Christian” in these negative hateful posts. But, this is the norm in my experience. For you who say you “love the sinner, hate the sin”, there is no love or compassion in that. Christ is not in that statement. Please, meditate on love and compassion, it goes a long way towards disapating your hatred.

    The GLBT people I know are loving, kind, compassionate, intelligent and many are spiritual as well. They show the true love of Christ in their kindness and caring. But they also stand fast against false accusations and hatred. I find it interesting that many of you so-called Christians accuse Keltic of lying, when its obvious that the norm for fundamental religious folk is to suppress and oppress GLBT through lies and deceit. Yes, the very same who accuse GLBT of furthering their agenda through lies and deceit, are the ones actually lying an deceiving. You should be ashamed.

    By the way, a lot of you are spending precious energy spewing out crap here, when, according to your Bible, you should be feeding the hungry, clothing the poor and tending to widows and children.


  35. Toni, I have to agree with you about the anger. There’s a lot in this thread, on both sides of the issue.

    We can fling Bible verses back and forth at each other for the rest of our lives and never agree. Where all Christians can agree is at the foot of the cross, in humble gratitude for God’s unconditional grace. We are ALL called to offer that same grace to the world. Not just to some who meet our requirements or standards, to ALL just as Jesus did.

    Janelinda, where is the grace for the men you believe are misguided in their understanding of scripture? Aren’t they more in need of your prayers than your anger? Gentlemen, your righteous anger stirs the fire and fans the flames. Where is your grace for someone you feel is uninformed and misguided? We can come together, if we humbly attempt to reflect the incredible gift of grace we’ve been given by God.


  36. {{{{{Keltic said; “Jane,
    You’ve made 3 comments in a row in less than 20 minutes. Yet you claim that you spend no part of your day condemning homosexuals or thinking of what they do. Your behavior betrays your words. I’d say that you might even be obsessed with what we homosexuals do. have you talked to a counselor about this obsession you have?

    Once again, I want to direct you back to your original comments: The truth is that Paul’s writings are clear that homosexuality is a sin rewarded by death. If the state won’t do it, the church will.

    If this is not a death threat to homosexuals, if this is not a call for their mass murder, then please, by all means, explain what you mean by it, without resorting to “reward of sin” because that still doesn’t explain who is meting out the punishments and rewards. If it’s God, then God isn’t doing this in a just manner. Remember Hurrican Katrina? If that’s God’s judgment on homosexuals, then God was WAY off, had He (or She) held off a few more days, thousands of homosexuals could have suffered!

    By saying that “if the state won’t do it, the church will” you have indicated that you think the government should kill the homosexuals, and if they won’t do the job, the church will do it. How can this possibly mean anything else?
    by keltic October 1, 2008 at 10:42 am }}}}”

    Keltic, Let me try this one more time. I don’t condemn homosexuals. GOD DOES. I agree with God. How is that hard to understand? I stand with my Father. Keltic, why do you keep on this same thing that I have a desire to kill homosexuals? I want then SAVED!
    I am defending myself against all this hate speech in these comments here, is that okay with you?
    Now, I’m going back home to my blog and will write a blog on why I think a homosexual is a terrible waste of a man (God’s handiwork) and what the church does concerning them.
    Quit trying to stir up trouble Keltic. I SAID! that the sin itself kills. When I said the church will kill homosexuals, I meant the churches teachings which come from God. Quit trying to make me out to be a blogger who seeks to kill homosexuals.
    As for the hurricanes; they come because of God’s laws of nature. If one happens to be in its path regardless of what you believe, you will be in danger. God doesn’t need to send hurricanes to destroy rebellious sinners. Their own lives will destroy them if they continue to rebel against God’s laws. SIN KILLS!

    I’m sorry you think that I’m stirring up trouble. But let’s be clear about who is defending themselves.
    janelinda said: The truth is that Paul’s writings are clear that homosexuality is a sin rewarded by death. If the state won’t do it, the church will.
    That was an unprovoked, unsolicited,and declarative statement made by you. I called you on it. You can not claim to be the one being attacked! Homosexuals are not running around calling for the deaths of those who think their very existence is sinful. We are, however, standing up against hate speech, and demanding our civil rights from the CIVIL government.
    Here’s another unprovoked, unsolicited declarative statement made by you: “I’m going back home to my blog and will write a blog on why I think a homosexual is a terrible waste of a man ” Could you be any more insulting? and you’re doing all this while claiming to be a christian.

    sorry Jane, you’re like a dog with a bone. I’ve got readers emailing me, asking if you’re for real. They keep coming back to see what crazy thing you’ll say next.


  37. Keltic:

    Just want to weigh in briefly to say: I am proud of you taking a stand; and standing firm in your truth, and trying to engage others in dialogue about us as gays and lesbians…. BRAVO!!!! I love you, bud….


  38. Responding briefly to Birdie, if people like janelinda would come to the table with an atom of compassion or understanding, I’d be less strident. If people like janelinda allowed for the possibility that maybe what they’ve been told is wrong, I’d let down my guard.

    But that’s not what people like janelinda are doing. No less than three times this week, I’ve been called the devil. Twice this week I’ve been told that I’m worthy of death. Yesterday somebody compared me to a pedophile. Now janelinda has decided that I’m “a terrible waste of a man”. Another blogger has decided to dismiss me because she “doesn’t want to talk about it”, yet she continues to post anti-gay screeds.

    Over and over, homophobes have proven that they’re not coming to discuss, but to condemn, and I refuse to be punched in the face and pretend it’s not happening.

    In general, I try (fail, but try) not to post too much on blogs where people are so militantly anti-gay. They are unreachable. But every now and then, I do think it’s important to draw them out from their sometimes gentle words and their coded pats on the head so that people who CAN be moved will see who they’re siding with.


  39. Vanessa was kind enough to point me to your blog.

    I am continuously sickened by the attitude that Christians take towards homosexuals, pretending to do it for God’s sake. I’ve yet to meet a person whom God does not love, gays included.

    To put it simply, the Church has blood on it’s hands. When our attitude towards others causes them to reject God or to question the good that can come from scripture, that is blood on our hands. Our responsibility. And to see the comments directed towards you as a result of this post… it’s wrong.

    If you want to see more of my thoughts on the subject, just go to my blog and read anything under the “homosexuality” tag. Suffice it to say I’ve made it my life’s work to preach directly against the homophobia and bad behavior put forth in God’s name.

    I wonder how these so-called Christians think they are EVER going to demonstrate God’s love to you by treating you the way they currently are? It’s twisted, it’s morally indefensible and it’s just plain confusing.

    The Bible calls for us to exhort the good in each other, not pummel each other’s heads in with the Bible.


  40. Um, the word ‘iniquity’ doesn’t have a Hebrew root. Now, a Hebrew word meaning ‘perverseness, evil, punishment’ may have been translated by someone as ‘iniquity’, but if the English word ‘iniquity’ doesn’t mean what Janelinda says the Hebrew word means, then there’s a problem with the translation. Or with what Janelinda asserts. You decide.


  41. Here’s an interesting article on the Hebrew word translated iniquity= any teaching in the Christian church that says that Iniquity still must be carried to the grave is confused at it’s very best, since Christ died for our iniquity and thus sins which “lead to death” in Hebrew teachings can be forgiven.

    So if we judge someone as being deserving of death for their sins, we are doing the opposite of what Christ wanting for them, as Christ wanted them to be forgiven and gave his life for them.

    Now, one may argue that a gay person doesn’t want to change and thus should be judged worthy of death, but that is hypocritical as we don’t judge gluttons or the greedy by the same standard, and iniquity (by the Hebrew definition) is any time a sin comes from a decision to act against what one KNOWS God has commanded one to do. I know God doesn’t want me to lie, sometimes I lie, I also deserve death.

    Hence Jesus.

    Now, I would argue that if one does believe that homosexual acts are sinful (you honestly can’t say “homosexuality”, as having an orientation can’t be sinful, it’s not sinful for me to be HETEROsexual) but a gay person doesn’t, they aren’t being iniquitous. They are being human. If they have a relationship with God and God has asked them to change their life and they refuse, THAT is iniquitous. But to run around on the internets calling all gay people demonic, that’s just rude.

    AND NOT CHRISTLIKE.


  42. Jane, Janelinda or whoever you are, apparently you need to read your bible a lot more closely before spewing so much hatred. It’s people like you who make the rest of us embarrassed to label ourselves as Christians. From everything I have been taught, there is no way that Jesus would have accepted your sick, disdainful attitude as His own.

    I have many homosexual friends, Keltic and his husband included, and a couple relatives as well, and as Toni points out, they are some of the most compassionate, kind, well-adjusted people in some of the happiest, most stable relationships/marriages I know. Certainly happier and more stable than I, a straight woman, has ever managed to achieve in 43 years of life.

    Perhaps you need to really examine the roots of your hatred. I am quite sure you will find a great deal of fear there. Of what, I am not sure, and I find that very sad. But I will pray for you anyway, even though I am trying hard to find a reason why you deserve that kindness, other than because Jesus would say you do.

    Now if you’ll all excuse me, I think I will put on my pink Chuck Taylors and Levi’s 501 jeans and walk myself down to Burger King for a snack. Have a lovely day!

    Steve–you ROCK baby! Stand strong, there are as many of us behind you as there are sickos out there who would silence you. xoxo


  43. Update – janelinda is definitely a liar. From one of her September 26, 2008 posts on her own blog:
    “Filed under: Oh Gee! — janelinda @ 1:45 pm

    (For the Record, no comments are being deleted. All comments can be found under post they refer to. Some comments are nothing but profanity filled hate speech. I delete them.) ”

    I posted a respectful comment to one of her posts disagreeing with her slanderous comments about Senator Obama. The entire theme of my comment was that honest debate on real policy positions was more constructive than just heaping lies & invective on the candidate you don’t like.

    That comment is nowhere to be found on her blog, though the post to which I appended it is still there.

    Perhaps she’s so befuddled and fear-filled that she has no idea what ‘honesty’ actually entails.


  44. […] homosexual in particular, “Keltic” went as far as to write a nice little blog demeaning me, calling me names, denying the facts […]


  45. May I direct all of you to the blog of Father Geoffrey Farrow, who has sacrificed his vocation to speak lovingly of gay marriage.


  46. […] month, friend of the blog Keltic posted over at his own blog about the phenomenon of anti-gay bloggers employing below board tactics when confronted with an […]


  47. I found you via the tag surfer and I am impressed. I don’t see where anything you said was a lie, and I think it was quite well written.



Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

%d bloggers like this: